Meat for E. posticus

[Roachman26]

When I topped off their dog food the other day, I put in an orange wedge and a little bird of prey meat cube. 26 hours later they'd barely touched the meat cube, but the orange was nearly gone. Maybe they are satisfying their protein cravings with each others wings :huh: ! Once they molt into adulthood, they don't molt again, right? So damaged wings stay damaged until they die of old age or get eaten?

 

[Matt K]

When I topped off their dog food the other day, I put in an orange wedge and a little bird of prey meat cube. 26 hours later they'd barely touched the meat cube, but the orange was nearly gone. Maybe they are satisfying their protein cravings with each others wings :huh: ! Once they molt into adulthood, they don't molt again, right? So damaged wings stay damaged until they die of old age or get eaten?

This is correct. Also, it is something of a myth that roaches require alot of protein. In nature they are eating decaying vegetation and its products, etc., not hunting down other insects and mammals as prey items. Wing biting is a cause of husbandry, typically from crowded conditions or a lack of food, or both. Since most people keep them in crowded conditions, wing biting is more frequent (but the degree of it varies from species to species). When people argue this point they typically dont take into consideration that when the roaches are fed protein, its really no different than feeding them a larger amount of fruit or vegetables, so either way thier guts are full and wing biting occurrs to a lesser degree. It seems like this "roaches need alot of protein" myth has permeated every website that references what roaches eat without ANY specific data to back that up. Makes me nuts.... :wacko:

Any of my species get very little protein very rarely and all are fine. Thier protein comes in the form of plant-based protein for the most part, with a small amount of shrimp meal and fish meal as an added ingredient (100% of the small amount of protein my roaches get comes from a bulk fish food I buy in 50 lb. bags, and "meat" based protein is a small percentage of the ingredients, its mostly wheat and soy).

HAVING TYPED ALL THAT, I can say that when I have a reptile that lays a dud egg, or when a lizard dies of old age, from a fight, etc. or a snake not eat a rat/mouse, I toss that into one of the Eublaberus sp. bins and it gets cleaned down to the bone.... faster than dermestid beetles and sometimes better than.

 

[Ralph]

P. americana has been recorded attacking and eating winged termites and other small insects. I was also reading that much of their protein intake is microbial. But yeah, you're correct that they don't need/want a lot of it.

 

[Roachman26]

This is correct. Also, it is something of a myth that roaches require alot of protein. In nature they are eating decaying vegetation and its products, etc., not hunting down other insects and mammals as prey items. Wing biting is a cause of husbandry, typically from crowded conditions or a lack of food, or both. Since most people keep them in crowded conditions, wing biting is more frequent (but the degree of it varies from species to species). When people argue this point they typically dont take into consideration that when the roaches are fed protein, its really no different than feeding them a larger amount of fruit or vegetables, so either way thier guts are full and wing biting occurrs to a lesser degree. It seems like this "roaches need alot of protein" myth has permeated every website that references what roaches eat without ANY specific data to back that up. Makes me nuts.... :wacko: Any of my species get very little protein very rarely and all are fine. Thier protein comes in the form of plant-based protein for the most part, with a small amount of shrimp meal and fish meal as an added ingredient (100% of the small amount of protein my roaches get comes from a bulk fish food I buy in 50 lb. bags, and "meat" based protein is a small percentage of the ingredients, its mostly wheat and soy).

HAVING TYPED ALL THAT, I can say that when I have a reptile that lays a dud egg, or when a lizard dies of old age, from a fight, etc. or a snake not eat a rat/mouse, I toss that into one of the Eublaberus sp. bins and it gets cleaned down to the bone.... faster than dermestid beetles and sometimes better than.

We all know it drives you nuts. I've read the previous posts on this. Its okay, Matt, we all have our pet peeves .

There just seems to be a fair amount of anecdotal evidence out there in the world that THIS species seems to like/want/need more protein than the average pet roach.

I've got about 10 adults and 40 nymphs of greatly varying sizes in an 18 gallon tub with 6-12"x12" egg flats divided by cardboard. There is always dog food, turtle sticks and some fresh produce in the tub. In fact, they spread the food out all over the tub and between the flats. Every ten days or so I pull out the old food and replace it with fresh. The produce is replaced daily. I think you know my humidity routine. Daily mistings and water crystals. They came from a good source fairly recently, so I know they were well cared for and fed prior to me getting them.

Does this fit the definition for overcrowded or underfed? All of my adults are pretty well chewed on. I'd love to figure out how to get that to stop, but I know its a common problem with this species.

 

[BugmanPrice]

We all know it drives you nuts. I've read the previous posts on this. Its okay, Matt, we all have our pet peeves .

As soon as I saw the topic title I started laughing! Its great having this debate every three months although it hasn’t gotten as lively as it did in the past. I enjoy listening to both sides; lots of good points are brought up but I do think people in general try too hard to push the high protein too hard (for ‘roaches, reptiles, livestock, humans; it stretches across most “omnivorous” taxa). I think as long as cockroaches are kept in captivity this will be an issue. Every animal husbandry hobby has issues like this; it must just go with the territory. I can’t really contribute much, having nothing to say that hasn’t been said so far. But…

@Roachman26: Maybe population density isn’t the main issue, have you investigated sex ratio? I noticed a biased ratio in my colony and fixed it (actually reversed it). I’ll see, if I maintain it, if will rectify the problem.

 

[Roachman26]

As soon as I saw the topic title I started laughing! Its great having this debate every three months although it hasn’t gotten as lively as it did in the past. I enjoy listening to both sides; lots of good points are brought up but I do think people in general try too hard to push the high protein too hard (for ‘roaches, reptiles, livestock, humans; it stretches across most “omnivorous” taxa). I think as long as cockroaches are kept in captivity this will be an issue. Every animal husbandry hobby has issues like this; it must just go with the territory. I can’t really contribute much, having nothing to say that hasn’t been said so far. But…@Roachman26: Maybe population density isn’t the main issue, have you investigated sex ratio? I noticed a biased ratio in my colony and fixed it (actually reversed it). I’ll see, if I maintain it, if will rectify the problem.

I knew Matt would chime in( and I appreciate it ), but I didn't know he'd be that quick about it. I was laughing as I typed the original post but I though I'd be okay since I was noting that they didn't seem to care for it much.

I'll check the sex ratio next time I crack them open. I'm assuming I should ideally have several adult females to each male, right? I don't have anything big enough to eat an adult posticus yet, but I can separate them in to their own bin for a few weeks until my little monitors catch up. Please keep us posted about how things go in your newly adjusted colony.

 

[momin2001]

Any of my species get very little protein very rarely and all are fine. Thier protein comes in the form of plant-based protein for the most part, with a small amount of shrimp meal and fish meal as an added ingredient (100% of the small amount of protein my roaches get comes from a bulk fish food I buy in 50 lb. bags, and "meat" based protein is a small percentage of the ingredients, its mostly wheat and soy).

Where can you get 50lb bags of fish food?

 

[Matt K]

Where can you get 50lb bags of fish food?

I get mine from a feed store about 4 miles from my house. Mostly they sell feed for horses, cows, goats, but order in other stuff for big ponds and a few local exotics (alpaca, emu, etc.)

 

[momin2001]

Thank you

 

[Zephyr]

Recently I moved (I should say dumped, lol) my E. posticus colony into a new container. Within days I started finding perfectly molted adults.

I think the wing biting problem emerges within the first day after a molt; the adults I found with perfect wings had found a way to climb up the screening on the sides of the container, avoiding any contact with the colony below them.

 

[Roachman26]

Recently I moved (I should say dumped, lol) my E. posticus colony into a new container. Within days I started finding perfectly molted adults. I think the wing biting problem emerges within the first day after a molt; the adults I found with perfect wings had found a way to climb up the screening on the sides of the container, avoiding any contact with the colony below them.

When I first got my colony, the adults looked pretty good, but really chewed each other's wings up in the first few weeks. However, all of the nymphs that are molting into adulthood are turning out perfect and staying that way.

 

[BoogleBug]

Wow, it's interesting to hear that about wing biting. My orange heads are in a large tank with many hides, but they still would bite down each others' wings almost halfway gone or even practically bare. when I threw in more dog food, the wing biting seemed to have stopped dead in its tracks and now any adults just have mild nibble marks on the edges even though there are WAY more in the tank now than there were pre-dog food feeding. I still feed them pretty much the same amount, I've just added a bit more protein and if anything haven't fed them as much of other things. I know for a fact that they prefer dog food above ANYthing else...