What do I feed my Blaptica dubia roaches.
- Thread starter pedro92
- Start date
Matt K
Eurycotis
Fruits, veggies, and fish food are what I use for all my roach species. Another rule of thumb: If you can eat it, usually they can too (with some exceptions).
Michael Johnson
First Instar
i posted this awhile back.. and it has worked amazingly..
I love my Dubia and have been hunting and reading around for the best all around feeder for them and found that there really isn't one!
I've read everything from people throwing in items not fit for human consumption to totally organic fruits and veggies..
Knowing that they need high protein diet (different from many species of roach) I started my search.
Ferret food was mentioned a lot so I looked around and found, Pretty Pets ,"Natural Gold" - it's 50% crude protein, then I went through dog and cat foods from soup to nuts and found, All natural - Good Life Recipe Catfood at 34% crude protein, and finally add Cody's ProGutload (progeckos.com) I've used it for over a year for my mealies and crix as gut load. It's great and has 20% crude protein and a ton of everything else they need; plus they already love it by itself...
Each of these are loaded with vitamins and minerals but I add a bit of Vionate (all around multi vitamin and mineral) and blend the whole mix for ease in scooping and even distribution of each ingredient.
Of course I still throw in some romaine, orange slices, or bananas once or twice a week. But this seems to be great mix and costs around 30 bucks and yields enough for at least 6 months.
I also bought my Dubia from BlapticaDubia.com - he sells a roach buffet that works pretty well also.. but since I'm feeding them to my leopard geckos who may become breeders and are for sale, i wanted something I knew would bulk them up well and was easy to get on my own and cheaper..
I ground mine up in the magic bullet so it's like a course sand consistency and keep it in an airtight container..
You really can find all that you need in a petsmart, petco, etc..
I love my Dubia and have been hunting and reading around for the best all around feeder for them and found that there really isn't one!
I've read everything from people throwing in items not fit for human consumption to totally organic fruits and veggies..
Knowing that they need high protein diet (different from many species of roach) I started my search.
Ferret food was mentioned a lot so I looked around and found, Pretty Pets ,"Natural Gold" - it's 50% crude protein, then I went through dog and cat foods from soup to nuts and found, All natural - Good Life Recipe Catfood at 34% crude protein, and finally add Cody's ProGutload (progeckos.com) I've used it for over a year for my mealies and crix as gut load. It's great and has 20% crude protein and a ton of everything else they need; plus they already love it by itself...
Each of these are loaded with vitamins and minerals but I add a bit of Vionate (all around multi vitamin and mineral) and blend the whole mix for ease in scooping and even distribution of each ingredient.
Of course I still throw in some romaine, orange slices, or bananas once or twice a week. But this seems to be great mix and costs around 30 bucks and yields enough for at least 6 months.
I also bought my Dubia from BlapticaDubia.com - he sells a roach buffet that works pretty well also.. but since I'm feeding them to my leopard geckos who may become breeders and are for sale, i wanted something I knew would bulk them up well and was easy to get on my own and cheaper..
I ground mine up in the magic bullet so it's like a course sand consistency and keep it in an airtight container..
You really can find all that you need in a petsmart, petco, etc..
crepsis
Third Instar
I feed my B. craniifer (true death's head roach) nymphs a choice of ground monkey chow (20% protein content), ground parrot pellets (12% protein content), and hemp protein powder (50% protein content), along with water crystals for a constant water supply, and mist to keep the humidity high. I've recently begun making a mixture of ground monkey chow, ground whole oats, ground wheat germ, ground wheat bran, hemp protein powder, a small amount of calcium powder, a very small amount of herpti-cal vitamin supplement, and adding just enough (wild Rockey Mountain) honey and mixing it all together to form the consistency of just barely moistened mini-pellets/little balls (1mm and less in size)...I've found that the nymphs seem to really enjoy these, as they go right for them and greedily grab them over the ground food choice I offer and even the apples and bananas I added (for variety). I just use a marble mortar and pestle to grind small batches of each of the ingredients before combining, and it seems to work well. I've also recently mixed in washed and sterilized crushed up dry oak leaves to the substrate in case they decide to munch on any of them - apparently some roaches will eat hard-wood leaves.
I'm just using what I have around the house for now (I have a parrot - hence the monkey chow and parrot pellets), until my colony starts to grow, at which point, I'll probably look into trying other things to see what they'll prefer, but I'm going to stay with plant based protein for now since it will keep any odor that might possibly arise down. (Although the monkey chow does use whole dried eggs to supplement protein, and animal fat, it would never smell as bad, or cause a bad smell, as actual animal protein does)
I'm just using what I have around the house for now (I have a parrot - hence the monkey chow and parrot pellets), until my colony starts to grow, at which point, I'll probably look into trying other things to see what they'll prefer, but I'm going to stay with plant based protein for now since it will keep any odor that might possibly arise down. (Although the monkey chow does use whole dried eggs to supplement protein, and animal fat, it would never smell as bad, or cause a bad smell, as actual animal protein does)
Last edited by a moderator:
Michael Johnson
First Instar
oh yeah I forgot to mention the water crystals.. I keep a constant supply of those around as well. BlapticaDubia sells them pretty cheap as well.
I like the idea of rolling in honey and making pellets rather than a ground method because they can be messy.. I may try that..
I agree I like a mix of both plant materials and some animal fats as well..
I've given them small amounts of turkey and dressing baby food which they tear through..
I like the idea of rolling in honey and making pellets rather than a ground method because they can be messy.. I may try that..
I agree I like a mix of both plant materials and some animal fats as well..
I've given them small amounts of turkey and dressing baby food which they tear through..
Matt K
Eurycotis
Just a thought-
It sometimes strikes me as interesting what people know and what they think they know, so I play devil's advocate just to shake things up with a few overlooked facts from time to time. Here is today's list:
What constitutes "high protein" in roaches diet?
How do you know they require it?
Can you reference the study that was done indicating it?
Do they really require the protein, or require a product of digested protien (such as amino acids found in bananas or papayas, which would be easier to feed them these fruit directly) ??
If protein is important (for B.dubia, for example) in thier diets, in thier native habitat where is all this protein coming from?
What do they eat in the wild?
Have you been to or know someone who has travelled to thier indigenous location to verify some of these answers?
Only one of these questions is really hard to answer....ready? Go!
It sometimes strikes me as interesting what people know and what they think they know, so I play devil's advocate just to shake things up with a few overlooked facts from time to time. Here is today's list:
What constitutes "high protein" in roaches diet?
How do you know they require it?
Can you reference the study that was done indicating it?
Do they really require the protein, or require a product of digested protien (such as amino acids found in bananas or papayas, which would be easier to feed them these fruit directly) ??
If protein is important (for B.dubia, for example) in thier diets, in thier native habitat where is all this protein coming from?
What do they eat in the wild?
Have you been to or know someone who has travelled to thier indigenous location to verify some of these answers?
Only one of these questions is really hard to answer....ready? Go!
Last edited by a moderator:
crepsis
Third Instar
I don't know, but from what I've read the species that require higher protein diets (Orange heads) often do well on occasional feedings of cat food (~30% protein). I would guess that dog food, at around 20% protein is all they would ever need though.
As far as B. dubia goes, I don't, because I do not have any B. dubia.
No.
Almost everything requires some form of protein or other. Omnivores generally do well at around 15%-20% (of actual protein), I'm not sure about insect omnivores though.
Amino acids are not proteins but the building blocks of them...the way that you stated that was accurate, but easily misunderstood. (This is semantics, due to the fact that when nutrition analysis is done amino acids are included in a protein profile, most of the time, even though they are not, and should not be considered a substitute for complex proteins) Again, as far as insects go, I could be wrong here.
I would *guess* that it would be plant protein mostly, and the occasional bird carcass, other insects, and fungi...Ooops, I covered just about all the higher forms of life, no wait, I meant to do that.
Who can say?
Haven't you gone on several awesome expeditions? B)
Well, I've got to head off to work...spent too much time out drinking with friends at a birthday party last night...ugh!
How did I do?
Last edited by a moderator:
Matt K
Eurycotis
"L" "O" freakin' "L" !! Humor is great...
For ALOT of critters on Earth, 32% protein is pretty high.
(This discussion can cover B.craniifer and B. dubia, because it realy applies to roaches in general)
Do roaches require protein? Yes. High levels of protein, debatable, but generally no.
Reference on roach diets: (Cohen et al; 1987) states that roaches are able to select different food types to find thier own nutritional balances "cafeteria style" rather than trying to obtain all thier nutrition from one food source.
Other papers published suggest that whole animal protein is very, very rarely part of a roaches normal diet, and "plant proteins"- from what plants? Roaches are not a common pest on bean farms and nut trees. The otherwise small amounts of proteins that they get (incl. B.craniifer and B.dubia) come from sources such as microbes. More to the simplified point, roaches can 'taste' a decaying leaf that is decaying because of a microbial colony breaking the leaf down, and then eat that portion of the rotting leaf so that they get the protein from the microbes eating the leaf and not the roach eating the leaf for much other reason than that (for the sourcing of proteins).
Omnivores can do well on less than one percent dietary proteins. However 10-20% for roaches is really high but supplies alot of energy devoted to reproduction and living in the care of humans, theoretically. I dont find any papers to show this at this time.
Crepsis- you have me there regarding what do they eat in the wild and so on. I have been to many tropical locations, with still many more on my list, and have seen roaches feeding in the wild. This is a whole other topic that I could probably (and will at some point) type pages about. Currently I am exploring how to take an excellent telephoto picture at night in the tropics....much easier said than done....
Last edited by a moderator:
crepsis
Third Instar
~wipes forehead~ Phew! Cool. Plant proteins = any and all seeds. I always thought that seeds were highly prized by the animal kingdom, due to their high all-around nutrition, including protein. Also, fungus (mycelium & fruiting bodies - it's all the same exact stuff) does contain a significant amount of protein... do roaches ever really eat fungi? (Not just button mushrooms, they're bland, even I don't like them that much unless they are sauteed) Since fungis are great decomposers of cellulose, and since some roaches do like to eat rotting plant matter (lots of cellulose), it would be logical to conclude that they would get a significant amount of protein from fungi also, either by eating the decomposing plant matter and indirectly feeding on the fungus or by feeding on the fungus itself. What do you think about this Matt?
What about protein from yeasts (for those readers at home: NOT baking/brewing yeasts out of a package)? Any thoughts? I noticed my nymphs (I only have a small number, so this could be why) won't touch a banana until it's started to turn brown and gooey-looking (it's my thought that at that point it's probably teeming with a lively yeast colony)...maybe they're going after the tasty yeast, maybe they are waiting for the starches to be broken down into sugars, or (at the risk of sounding like an alcoholic) maybe they just like to get drunk from the alcohol
Since fungis are great decomposers of cellulose, and since some roaches do like to eat rotting plant matter (lots of cellulose), it would be logical to conclude that they would get a significant amount of protein from fungi also, either by eating the decomposing plant matter and indirectly feeding on the fungus or by feeding on the fungus itself. What do you think about this Matt?What about protein from yeasts (for those readers at home: NOT baking/brewing yeasts out of a package)? Any thoughts? I noticed my nymphs (I only have a small number, so this could be why) won't touch a banana until it's started to turn brown and gooey-looking (it's my thought that at that point it's probably teeming with a lively yeast colony)...maybe they're going after the tasty yeast, maybe they are waiting for the starches to be broken down into sugars, or (at the risk of sounding like an alcoholic) maybe they just like to get drunk from the alcohol
Last edited by a moderator:
Animal protein must be a pretty rare thing for roaches in the wild. Perhaps the reason they eat it so well is because they are wired to take advantage of it should it come around(similar to why we will eat too much red meat if given the chance). And many roaches don't even take advantage of the non processed forms...such as other insects.
I highly doubt they eat seeds except perhaps what may be found in fallen fruit in the wild.
I bet fungi composes a significant amount of their diet in the wild but I'm too chicken to try feeding mushrooms to my colonies.
I highly doubt they eat seeds except perhaps what may be found in fallen fruit in the wild.
I bet fungi composes a significant amount of their diet in the wild but I'm too chicken to try feeding mushrooms to my colonies.
Last edited by a moderator:
crepsis
Third Instar
Shucky darn! Another vote against plant based proteins! OK. Food for thought : Just about every plant reproduces by producing seeds, and seeds do not have to come in a fruit - that's just a convenient way for plants to get animals to disperse them farther from the mother plant for them. Most plants produce hundreds or thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of seeds, and only a miniscule amount of the seeds produced actually find favorable conditions to grow. Question: So where do the rest go? Answer: They are eaten/digested by one form of life or another. My guess is that includes the most successful branch of insects - the roaches.
: Just about every plant reproduces by producing seeds, and seeds do not have to come in a fruit - that's just a convenient way for plants to get animals to disperse them farther from the mother plant for them. Most plants produce hundreds or thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of seeds, and only a miniscule amount of the seeds produced actually find favorable conditions to grow. Question: So where do the rest go? Answer: They are eaten/digested by one form of life or another. My guess is that includes the most successful branch of insects - the roaches.
Last edited by a moderator:
MattK:
How do you know they require it?
Can you reference the study that was done indicating it?
Only one of these questions is really hard to answer....ready? Go!
1)Cockroach development is closely attuned to nutritional status (Gordon 1959;Mullins and Cochran,1987)......Diets relatively high in protein produce most rapid growth (Melampy and Maynard, 1937).....Females stop or slow down reproduction until nutrients, particularly the amount and quality of the ingested protein is adequate (Weaver and Pratt, 1981;Durbin and Cochran,1985,Pipa,1985;Mullins and Cochran,1987;Hamilton and Schal,1988)
Cockroaches:Ecology,Behaviour and Natural History,p.156
2)I guess they do require at least in some periods of their lives relatively high protein food. In general, there is evidence that supports that they eat microbe rich foods in order for their gut living protozoans and bacteria to convert them into nutrients and other useful substances.
I don't think that any kind of food can substitute exactly the nutritional requirements that each species gets in the wild, but I think that occasionally all roaches should need a nutritional "boost", especially in my opinion in the final instar and usually before reproduction.
You cant find the amazing diversity of fruit and seeds the occur in most tropical areas, so i guess that by offering them occasionally cat food or dog food does the job.
How do you know they require it?
Can you reference the study that was done indicating it?
Only one of these questions is really hard to answer....ready? Go!
1)Cockroach development is closely attuned to nutritional status (Gordon 1959;Mullins and Cochran,1987)......Diets relatively high in protein produce most rapid growth (Melampy and Maynard, 1937).....Females stop or slow down reproduction until nutrients, particularly the amount and quality of the ingested protein is adequate (Weaver and Pratt, 1981;Durbin and Cochran,1985,Pipa,1985;Mullins and Cochran,1987;Hamilton and Schal,1988)
Cockroaches:Ecology,Behaviour and Natural History,p.156
2)I guess they do require at least in some periods of their lives relatively high protein food. In general, there is evidence that supports that they eat microbe rich foods in order for their gut living protozoans and bacteria to convert them into nutrients and other useful substances.
I don't think that any kind of food can substitute exactly the nutritional requirements that each species gets in the wild, but I think that occasionally all roaches should need a nutritional "boost", especially in my opinion in the final instar and usually before reproduction.
You cant find the amazing diversity of fruit and seeds the occur in most tropical areas, so i guess that by offering them occasionally cat food or dog food does the job.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bricktop
Third Instar
I use romaine lettuce, bread, any fruit i may have on hand (apples, oranges, whatever), and as for protein, i just toss in Kibbles and Bits dogfood. I sold off my colony but it lasted me 2 or 3 years and was at least double or triple its original size, despite constantly giving them away (a friend at the Bronx Zoo wanted some). It may be dry, but if you spray it they take to it just fine. To my knowledge the same works for the orange heads and e. distantis. I didn't have any cannibalism or chewed wings problems in any of my tanks, even when they were crowded.
Dear writer;
Thank you for the citations; how do I find them to read and thus get the information I and others need to optimally raise our Dubia?
My experience is this: I gave my Dubia two different brands of 'Natural' cat food, one at 30% protein, one at 35% protein. The roaches ignored them. The roaches do apparently eat Bones brand of dog food which only has about %15 protein.
If others are feeding their Dubia predominantly commercial brands of pet food, I request that they post exactly what brand and 'flavor' their Dubia love.
It is not useful to me and other beginners who are trying to raise Dubia, to read about mixes without specific recipies. I assume that there is at least one or more commercial pet foods which can support good growth of a Dubia colony.
-NinoUpte7
1)Cockroach development is closely attuned to nutritional status (Gordon 1959;Mullins and Cochran,1987)......Diets relatively high in protein produce most rapid growth (Melampy and Maynard, 1937).....Females stop or slow down reproduction until nutrients, particularly the amount and quality of the ingested protein is adequate (Weaver and Pratt, 1981;Durbin and Cochran,1985,Pipa,1985;Mullins and Cochran,1987;Hamilton and Schal,1988)
Cockroaches:Ecology,Behaviour and Natural History,p.156
Thank you for the citations; how do I find them to read and thus get the information I and others need to optimally raise our Dubia?
My experience is this: I gave my Dubia two different brands of 'Natural' cat food, one at 30% protein, one at 35% protein. The roaches ignored them. The roaches do apparently eat Bones brand of dog food which only has about %15 protein.
If others are feeding their Dubia predominantly commercial brands of pet food, I request that they post exactly what brand and 'flavor' their Dubia love.
It is not useful to me and other beginners who are trying to raise Dubia, to read about mixes without specific recipies. I assume that there is at least one or more commercial pet foods which can support good growth of a Dubia colony.
-NinoUpte7
1)Cockroach development is closely attuned to nutritional status (Gordon 1959;Mullins and Cochran,1987)......Diets relatively high in protein produce most rapid growth (Melampy and Maynard, 1937).....Females stop or slow down reproduction until nutrients, particularly the amount and quality of the ingested protein is adequate (Weaver and Pratt, 1981;Durbin and Cochran,1985,Pipa,1985;Mullins and Cochran,1987;Hamilton and Schal,1988)
Cockroaches:Ecology,Behaviour and Natural History,p.156
Last edited by a moderator:
Roachman26
Seventh Instar
I keep some purina pro-plan dog kibble and some fruit or vegetables in the bin at all times. They eat it all. I recently had to split my bins because they are reproducing so fast.
I know it's been awhile since anybody has made a reply to this post but I have just started my colony about 3 weeks ago I did do some research befor I set them up. I did my research befor I pick up any Dubia Roaches everthing I read said dog food as I have 3 dogs I have plenty of dog food I pick up my Dubias at a Reptil show. I have been going to Reptile shows for years but the person putting this one on was trying something diffrent he did Reptiles in one building fish and birds in another and dogs and cats in the last building as I went thru the Reptile building Zoo Med was giving out their promo bags with hand cleaner Calcium and baby turtle food pellets.As their was three of us that went we had three bags with thid in them well my son has no reptils at home and my freind has snakes so I recived what was in his bag went to me as well. As we went thru the show we found 10 more bags that people threw away I ended up with 13 sets of samples. We went thru the bird and fish building and that was o.k. then went into the dog and cat building their was not much of cat supplies but I picked up some diffrent high end dog food that they were giving put samples of the sample size was about a cup and half per sample. So when I got home I read all the ingredients it was all natural madw with diffrent meats fish, chicken, deer, ect Grains rice, wheat, bran ect (no corn) after my girlfreind went upstairs to take a nap I brock out the blender and went to work I blended the dog food and turtle food together and made me 1 gal of roach food. I also give them freash veggies and fruit. They always have the dog food mix 24/7 and I mix up the fruite and veggies. I am going to pick up some fish flakes soon to mix with the dog food and also starting water crystals soon.
Roachman26
Seventh Instar
Was this the Pomona Show? Those are my roaches you bought. $10, right? I'd feed the fish flakes separately.