Eucalyptus species
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MrCrackerpants
Parcoblatta
Are you putting eucalyptus in your roach enclosures?
Matt K
Eurycotis
If you are in the USA, all eucalyptus are toxic to insects. They all originated as imported landscape varieties known to be resistant to insect infestation or consumption. Non-toxic varieties can only be found in Australia.
I lost quite a few roaches learning that the hard way....
I lost quite a few roaches learning that the hard way....
Or maybe the tortoise beetles are resistant to the toxins in the Eucalyptus. Sort of like Monarch butterfly caterpillars and milkweed.
Matt K
Eurycotis
In Costa Rica I have seen some really neat looking tortoise beetles that fed exclusively on a vine known to be very toxic to other bugs like katydids and catepillars.... just an observation.Or maybe the tortoise beetles are resistant to the toxins in the Eucalyptus. Sort of like Monarch butterfly caterpillars and milkweed.
What
Second Instar
One could make as many such "observations" to support their point as they want and that wouldnt make them any less fallacious(when used to support your point).
I have found many reports of people feeding Eucalyptus gunnii to their inverts with no problems, I also know that numerous species of invertebrates native to SE asia/oceania feed upon Eucalyptus species... Are there toxic species? Im sure. Are there safe species? Definitely...
Out of the +100 species in California alone do you really think that all eucalyptus in the USA is toxic? I dont and I would be happy to bet any sum of money on that fact.
Matt K
Eurycotis
@ WHat- you are known for misleading arguments, or starting arguments when there are none, so please don't do either on this forum.... several of us would appreciate it.
As for Eucalyptus in the USA being toxic- anyone who has roaches which will eat leaves is welcome to attempt to feed them eucalyptus leaves. They may or may not eat the leaves. If they eat the leaves the likelihood of those leaves being toxic as not is very high, high enough to be able to generalize that all eucalypts in the USA are toxic to roaches that eat leaves. You could potentially stumble across one of the species that is not, and if you are willing to lose a portion or all of a roach culture for that discovery- be my guest. It is rediculous to try to agrue that some are toxic and some are not unless more than one of anyone reading this has no life at all and all the resources to experiment with a trivial point in roach culture as this is considering the numerous hardwood leaves in the USA that are very much more accessable to everyone, and likely to be a healthy choice for the roaches that happen to consume dead foliage. Since there is no definitive way to test a eucalyptus species for "compatability" to any given species diet.....
Good grief.
...and "What", it's even worse when you take thing out of context (again), as my observation of tortoise beetles feeding on a vine known to be toxic to other endemic insects- which has nothing to do with the point you were making other than to illustrate how some species can accept a food item that others cannot - 'fallacious'....please.
As for Eucalyptus in the USA being toxic- anyone who has roaches which will eat leaves is welcome to attempt to feed them eucalyptus leaves. They may or may not eat the leaves. If they eat the leaves the likelihood of those leaves being toxic as not is very high, high enough to be able to generalize that all eucalypts in the USA are toxic to roaches that eat leaves. You could potentially stumble across one of the species that is not, and if you are willing to lose a portion or all of a roach culture for that discovery- be my guest. It is rediculous to try to agrue that some are toxic and some are not unless more than one of anyone reading this has no life at all and all the resources to experiment with a trivial point in roach culture as this is considering the numerous hardwood leaves in the USA that are very much more accessable to everyone, and likely to be a healthy choice for the roaches that happen to consume dead foliage. Since there is no definitive way to test a eucalyptus species for "compatability" to any given species diet.....
Good grief.
...and "What", it's even worse when you take thing out of context (again), as my observation of tortoise beetles feeding on a vine known to be toxic to other endemic insects- which has nothing to do with the point you were making other than to illustrate how some species can accept a food item that others cannot - 'fallacious'....please.
What
Second Instar
I was not aware that I was known for misleading arguments, but I am known for enjoying myself in an "argument"(though I prefer discussions, occasionally debates, arguments generally dont involve any substance just a disagreement)...so I will just take that to be what you are meaning with that. Im not going out of my way here to cause problems, Im not starting arguments, and I am not making any misleading or unsupported statements (that I know of). Zephyr and your statements re: the beetles might be completely correct, but I cannot find any information supporting it, and I did look...the information I did find states that there are a few species(that without looking up I cant remember) which are used for commercial eucalyptus oil and that these species are the ones with the highest concentrations of the toxic oils.
So you are supporting your absolutely stated generalization(bolded for other's sakes) with misleading information in your post it would seem, then.
The Eucalyptus in California(at least) starting in the 1850s were introduced by Aussies coming for the gold rush, these were to be used for timber, firewood, and later in the 1900s they were planted en masse for use as railroad ties. I can find no reference as the Eucalyptus in the USA being originally imported as "landscape varieties" OR due to them being "known to be resistant to insect infestation or consumption". I also can find no source for the "Non-toxic varieties can only be found in Australia"...and given that E. gunnii which is used as a feeder for various inverts in Europe can also be found in the USA (a local nursery even sells the trees and assorted other species)... Your claim of my making misleading arguments looks rather...ironic...from here.
Anyways, as I said, there definitely are toxic species in the USA and there definitely are safe species...that does also depend on if the person is trying to feed Eucalyptus to a species that might encounter Eucalyptus in the wild or as something for a species completely alien to it(which, if you have plenty, why not try with a select few?).
Your absolute generalization(lol) is what was the problem here, not my making the point that "hey, there are quite a few inverts that eat this stuff, there are loads of sp. in the USA...cant all be toxic you just have to find the safe species".
I was not taking that out of context at all, I was interpreting it in a manner that your omission of of the fact that you were speaking of the other endemic species. Your post after Zephyr's sort of seems out of place when interpreted the way you intended...especially without any sort of documentation, species name, hostplant info, or anything else... just a vague mention of a beetle that eats something toxic to katydids and caterpillars after a post positing that the tortoise beetles I mentioned are resistant to Eucalyptus toxins... My apologies for misinterpreting you.
Just to add some fuel to the fire... 
When I raised luna moths 2 years ago I fed them American sweetgum. They did fine on leaves from several plants in my area. When I grabbed leaves from a different area (no pesticides, etc) it turned out that that cultivar of sweetgum was toxic to them. I lost nearly all of my caterpillars from that mistake. And note that it was only a different cultivar that killed them; not even a separate species but a different variety that is barely distinguishable from the safe one.
These were luna moth caterpillars; One female luna lays hundreds of eggs and it's relatively easy to find more available from breeders etc. With some roaches, this isn't the case. You could spend hundreds of dollars on a roach (ring a bell, Matt?) and feed it Eucalyptus you thought was safe, only to find your roaches dead the next morning. It's not practical and not worth it to even risk it. There are plenty of other hardwood trees and even more types of plants whose leaves would make better roach food (or, to be more realistic, substrate additive) without the chance of killing your colony. Why be sorry when you can be safe?
Roaches will also eat things they shouldn't. I fed my colony of G. portentosa coconut and they absolutely loved it. A day later and I had hundreds of dying roaches on their backs twitching. Now I know not to feed them coconut ever again, but I would much rather have a booming colony of hissers than having learned that knowledge firsthand at their expense.
When I raised luna moths 2 years ago I fed them American sweetgum. They did fine on leaves from several plants in my area. When I grabbed leaves from a different area (no pesticides, etc) it turned out that that cultivar of sweetgum was toxic to them. I lost nearly all of my caterpillars from that mistake. And note that it was only a different cultivar that killed them; not even a separate species but a different variety that is barely distinguishable from the safe one.
These were luna moth caterpillars; One female luna lays hundreds of eggs and it's relatively easy to find more available from breeders etc. With some roaches, this isn't the case. You could spend hundreds of dollars on a roach (ring a bell, Matt?) and feed it Eucalyptus you thought was safe, only to find your roaches dead the next morning. It's not practical and not worth it to even risk it. There are plenty of other hardwood trees and even more types of plants whose leaves would make better roach food (or, to be more realistic, substrate additive) without the chance of killing your colony. Why be sorry when you can be safe?
Roaches will also eat things they shouldn't. I fed my colony of G. portentosa coconut and they absolutely loved it. A day later and I had hundreds of dying roaches on their backs twitching. Now I know not to feed them coconut ever again, but I would much rather have a booming colony of hissers than having learned that knowledge firsthand at their expense.
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Matt K
Eurycotis
Just for the record, when I see "What" reply to anything I posted, I don't even bother to read it. Historically its full of rationalizations and talking in circles like a great politician or religious cult leader. I still challenge anyone to find a eucalyptus in the USA that you can feed to roaches that does not kill said roaches within a few weeks time. Fact: You wont find one, which is what this thread topic is about.
What
Second Instar
Im not really sure that was needed, but if it makes you feel better whatever.
I would be more than happy to take up you on your challenge...if I currently kept a species that was found naturally near Eucalyptus. Maybe I will grab some of the B. lateralis I find living under cut down Eucalyptus trees just for the heck of it next time...
macbrush
Fifth Instar
Since I was interested in keeping giant burrowing roaches. I have done some digging around, googling, and surf various forums, no one ever (well.. maybe a few did. But most just say gum leaves not safe, or narrow leaf safe... etc) quote which species of eucalyptus to begin with, which I think is quite meaningless to continue the discussions until we have those information at hand. I have got some info on local species (that's Hong Kong) so far. But please be reminded that there are hundreds of eucalyptus species, some look very similar to each other, so please take great care when researching and especially feed them to your animals.
1. Eucalyptus citriodora which is extremely popular around the world, for its insect repel ability and strong lemon scent, which is most definitely not safe. Its a strong natural insect repellent, and it produce more essential oil (and its oil contain PMD, a chemical for making commercial mosquito repellent) than most other eucalyptus. And their leaves look very much like those narrow leaved ironbark found near giant burrowing roaches. There are people claiming narrow leaved eucalyptus is safe, that's the problem, since many species have narrow leaves, and some are toxic like this one, not even koala touch this stuff.
2. Eucalyptus robusta, Koala eat them, so its a start. But robusta's natural habitat is in coastal area, so I doubt very much its native to Giant Burrowing Cockroach's area. I have collected some dried leaves from local country park. But when I boil or steam them, I still get a very strong gum smell which probably means essential oil content is quite high even dried. I will try various method to get rid of the oil, if I can make it clear of essential oil, at least to a point that I can't smell it when being steamed/boiled/microwaved, I might try it on some roaches and see how it goes. Need more info or experiment.
3. Eucalyptus camaldulensis, and Eucalyptus tereticornis. A fellow in Australia suggested to me that E. tereticornis is probably safe since its widely distributed, and is not aromatic, while E. camaldulensis is a little more on aromatic side, so a little more risky. Unless I have a lot of babies at hand for experiment, I don't think I would try these at all.
4. Eucalyptus crebra (narrow leaved ironbark). The same Australian fellow told me that this is the tree species found in his neighbourhood, where he can also find giant burrowing roaches. Provided his information is correct, this is the single species that is almost certain is safe for giant burrowing roaches. The problem is that since this species isn't aromatic, contain less essential oil than other gums, grow not very fast, and need specific condition to grow. It isn't common outside australia, mostly planted for timber harvest and nothing else. For me, it cannot be found anywhere in Hong Kong, and people in China only grow them in private lands for timber harvest, so I have no access to it. Since its narrow leaved, if people only show their leaves saying its safe to feed roaches that, without naming the species or at least a picture of the bark, others most definitely will mistaken it with lemon E. citriodora and get into trouble.
[added 22/7/2011]
5. Eucalyptus torelliana, according to bugsed.com that Cadaghi tree leaves are safe for rhino roach, and its actually their favourite food (probably in that particular habitat).
[/added 22/7/2011]
This is not much, I will try to get some more information on this topic and share if I have anything. And sorry if this info isn't useful for other roach species, but I was only interested in feeding them to giant burrowing roaches.
Hope this helps a little.
Cheers
Kenneth
1. Eucalyptus citriodora which is extremely popular around the world, for its insect repel ability and strong lemon scent, which is most definitely not safe. Its a strong natural insect repellent, and it produce more essential oil (and its oil contain PMD, a chemical for making commercial mosquito repellent) than most other eucalyptus. And their leaves look very much like those narrow leaved ironbark found near giant burrowing roaches. There are people claiming narrow leaved eucalyptus is safe, that's the problem, since many species have narrow leaves, and some are toxic like this one, not even koala touch this stuff.
2. Eucalyptus robusta, Koala eat them, so its a start. But robusta's natural habitat is in coastal area, so I doubt very much its native to Giant Burrowing Cockroach's area. I have collected some dried leaves from local country park. But when I boil or steam them, I still get a very strong gum smell which probably means essential oil content is quite high even dried. I will try various method to get rid of the oil, if I can make it clear of essential oil, at least to a point that I can't smell it when being steamed/boiled/microwaved, I might try it on some roaches and see how it goes. Need more info or experiment.
3. Eucalyptus camaldulensis, and Eucalyptus tereticornis. A fellow in Australia suggested to me that E. tereticornis is probably safe since its widely distributed, and is not aromatic, while E. camaldulensis is a little more on aromatic side, so a little more risky. Unless I have a lot of babies at hand for experiment, I don't think I would try these at all.
4. Eucalyptus crebra (narrow leaved ironbark). The same Australian fellow told me that this is the tree species found in his neighbourhood, where he can also find giant burrowing roaches. Provided his information is correct, this is the single species that is almost certain is safe for giant burrowing roaches. The problem is that since this species isn't aromatic, contain less essential oil than other gums, grow not very fast, and need specific condition to grow. It isn't common outside australia, mostly planted for timber harvest and nothing else. For me, it cannot be found anywhere in Hong Kong, and people in China only grow them in private lands for timber harvest, so I have no access to it. Since its narrow leaved, if people only show their leaves saying its safe to feed roaches that, without naming the species or at least a picture of the bark, others most definitely will mistaken it with lemon E. citriodora and get into trouble.
[added 22/7/2011]
5. Eucalyptus torelliana, according to bugsed.com that Cadaghi tree leaves are safe for rhino roach, and its actually their favourite food (probably in that particular habitat).
[/added 22/7/2011]
This is not much, I will try to get some more information on this topic and share if I have anything. And sorry if this info isn't useful for other roach species, but I was only interested in feeding them to giant burrowing roaches.
Hope this helps a little.
Cheers
Kenneth
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macbrush
Fifth Instar
Note that this information is unverified, I haven't personally tested it, but I will once I have time to collect some leaves.
According to the following care sheet:
http://www.bugsed.com/fact_sheets/giant_burrowing_cockroach.html
Following paragraph is quoted from the care sheet.
"Favourite foods: The Giant Burrowing Cockroach only eats dry leaf litter from the forest floor – which means you would never run into one trying to sneak crumbs out of your kitchen! Their favourite leaves come from the Torelliana or Cadaghi tree (Eucalyptus torelliana). The Giant Burrowing Cockroach usually comes up to the surface at night and forages around for these dead leaves."
According to the following care sheet:
http://www.bugsed.com/fact_sheets/giant_burrowing_cockroach.html
Following paragraph is quoted from the care sheet.
"Favourite foods: The Giant Burrowing Cockroach only eats dry leaf litter from the forest floor – which means you would never run into one trying to sneak crumbs out of your kitchen! Their favourite leaves come from the Torelliana or Cadaghi tree (Eucalyptus torelliana). The Giant Burrowing Cockroach usually comes up to the surface at night and forages around for these dead leaves."
What
Second Instar
The Cadaghi tree is not in the Eucalyptus genus, its proper binomial is Corymbia torelliana.
I would personally go ahead and try the E. robusta leaves, if you have access to them, BUT I would not feed them fresh, freshly dried, or any leaves that were not well on their way down the road to decomposing.
I would personally go ahead and try the E. robusta leaves, if you have access to them, BUT I would not feed them fresh, freshly dried, or any leaves that were not well on their way down the road to decomposing.